ptioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >>ehrer: good evening. i'm jim lehrer. the struggle for surval sends ousands of haitians into the countryside. >> brown: and i'm jeffrebrown. the haitian government begs work osetting up camps outside port-au-prince for 4,000 ople. >> lehrer: we gereports from jay newton small of "time" magazine iport-au-prince, and our own ray suar on the border with the dominican repubc. >> i visited aospital in e border town, jammed with patientsho streamed over the border frohaiti seeking eatment for injuries sustained ithe

earthquake ten dayago. >> brown: then, theconomic and political fallout fr some stunningvents this week. dy woodruff takes a look wit vid wessel of "the wall stre journa. >> lehrer:ark shields and vid brooks offer their analysis. >> brown: and a look at o controls the internet the u.s. challges china on its censorship policies. >> couries that restrict fr access to information or violate the bic rights of internet users risk they will sels off from the progress of the xt century. >> lehr: that's all ahead... on tonight's newshour. major funding r the pbs newsho is provided by: pacific fe

bankf america >>hevron. this is the power of human energy. toyota. >> andy the bill and melinda gates fodation.

dedicated to t idea that all pele deserve the chance to live a healthyroductive life. and with the ongng support of the institutions and foundations. and... this program wasade possible by t corporation for public broadcaing. and by contributionso your pbs station om viewers like you. thank you. >> lehrer: the exodufrom haiti's shtered capital kept building today. aid ficials reported 200,000 haitians have fled porau- prince. the government talked of setng vast new tent cities. and an 84-year-old woman w pulled alive frothe rubble, after ten days. margaret warner talked earli today wi jay newton small of "time" magazine from port-- prince. >> warner: jay newton all, thank you for joining us were hearing reports of tens of thousas, in fact hundredsf thousands of haitians fleeing t city.

what have u seen? >> i have certaiy seen that. e port is clogged with ferrieof, you know, haitia trying to leave to go to fer areas. lecay is a very popular place ich wasn't at all fected by the earthquake down south fm here. people are ting to get anywhere out of town. if you go out into the suburbs, when you drive towards the dominican republic, everybodwho has got family anywhere ouide of port-au-prie has defitely gone to the burbs, gone to be with their family outside of port-au-prince becausehey are terrified the tremors that keep happening. and they areorried another big one could hit again. >> warne then we also hear that the govnment is, one, nostanding in the way of this. and two, is planni to build tent cits outside of town >> wl, frankly, one of the problems tt haiti had even before thidisaster was that iwas too much of an urban untry. there was too muchocus on the economy of port-au-prince andot much else in the economs of the other parts of the cntry. so a lot of experts in hatei believe that witthe popution diversifying,

going out, restarting a gray-- agrarn business, restarting tns in the midd of nowhere compared to haiti, they are diveifying the economy and that wl help which is why e government is encouraging th to do it in order to do sohey are building tent cities. there one ju outside of town herwhere they are building a tent city for about 10,000 people. so they are ying like look, wntown port-au-prince is really cloggedith ad hoc tent cities everywhere it is better in tes of the crowdingin terms of health, for ople to spread out. and also in tes of safety. so they are enuraging is. >> warner: now who is buildinghe tent cities, and how far alg are they? how soon do you think they will be inhatable? >> the gernment is behind the tent cities but ey are building builtith the help of the united nations,ith other countrs including the ited states. in fact there is a tencity not far from wre i am standing that actually bng administered by the 82 airborne division of t army which is home to abt an estimated 7000 people

alrey. but the nt cities that are to you being built a actually farther out of to than even that. and they wl include just simp tents to begin with but farther down the roa they are hing to include moreermanent structures sense we are coming upo in fo weeks time the rainy seas and soon after that thhurricane season and obously tents aren't very good for that. >> warner: now mnwhile ba in the city where you have all these make-ift settlements, what is theid distrition system like ere. is it any better than say yesterday or the dayefore? >>id is getting better and better eve day. efeday i see more water trucks on the street more footrucks distributing aid therere still long lin for it. because food is stl so expensive here everying is pricgouged. so for exampleif your eye drops cost $3 beforehe earthquake, theyow cost $3 you know, everything is inedibly expensive. one tank of gas last week cost u$160. now thatown to $50. but you know, thstores are opening buthings are

incredibly eensive an peopleaven't been paid, they hen't been working. they've used up altheir savings or tir savings are under the rubble of the nk or a home. so they ve no way of ying for this incredibly expensive food. and that's why you see suc long lines at banks asell as food distribuon centres because pem are literay starving. but as, again, fd is easing and things are gettinbetter and bette with every day that weave seen. >>arner: and you mentioned banks reopening. what other signs he you en that normal life might be rurning. >> you know, i visited my firspharmacy yesterday which is why i was speaking about eye drops. when you go outsidof the rport, there are these little touristy ores that ll sort of african carves which have cropped up. there is some supermarkets that are oped but ins for them are pretty long. there's, y know, i saw car alers open. i saw a reallyong line for a hardware store as people are trying to rebuiltheir homes. so here and there therare places opening and banks, today actually the first

wire service agencopened. so a lot of people lined up for remittces from the united stateand they are hoping to open up another three those tomorrow. it is not exactly rmal life. there is a lot owaiting in line. t it's getting to be at least yocan access seices if you have enough patience. warner: jay newton small of "timemagazine, thank you. >> thank you. brown: many of those fleein port-au-prin have sought refugen the dominican public, haiti's neighbor to the east. ray suarezrrived at the border town of jimani this rning. there he visited hospital organized the pan american health organization. warning-- some of the images are disturbing. suarez: this little hospita has en thousands of patients in just over a week. hundreds havhas been stabiled in a day or two and moved on to an improvise recory home. othe have waited patiently suffering unl help arrived. we talked with ts 34-year-old government wker's husband. june's legas injured when the couple's home llapsed in port-

au-prince, a she lay in the rubble of her homeor two days. once rescued, she waitednother ve days before her first treatment in the dominan republic. e's in pain. her right lehas ballooned in size. the treatment and the fo, her husband sa, have been sporic. later that morni, a team of american voluntes comes by, dresses her blood-soaked ank, antries to play catch-up medicine with injuries tt had a lo head start. dr. saa montas came to jimani from the universitof michigan medil center. >> someone who has that ppen to them where they haveomething lay on them for days. they get cplications, than just the injury. she has a ton of swelling, and that swelling is certainly elated to someing laying on her for that long. we have to watch iclosely. sometimes dow anp rative predure pro to address that, but in this settg particularly it would introduce a huge risk of infection which woul probly be worse for the patient. suarez: three-year-old mose

adoostin cast runs from his chest to h ankles. his ther kettelie says tuling cement blocks from their collapsing house landeon s legs and they're dislocate thboy waited in pain for days until they could me the trip to the border. mother and son will sooneturn to haiti andross the border again for a foow-up visit. dr. edwin bravo iseading a teamrom guatemala. for the mome, he's the director of emgency medicine here or, ahe explained, in the midst of another 20-ur day, not hospal medicine-- war medicine >> suarez: bravo says the st serious threat he's seeing now is infection in people who couldn be treated for a week before he seeshem-- lung infections fm inhaling dust from the rble, people who were trapped and unable to mo have ies laying eggs in their wounds. outside jimani, a tempory hospital-- before lasteek, this was an pty apartment building. now, it's a crowded hoital

doing 80 surries a day. rk pinard is a haitian- amican doctor who has come here from neyork. he's treating people and sding them back to haiti, where ere is now help on the otheride of the border. >> braff. >> some of our physician re, daily would cross the boer and assure there is medication, theris personnel,kay, to take care of them. because have a lot of doors here, physicians, whcan handle that. >>uarez: in both facilities, international organitions and volunteers are supplementi the domicans who rushed in from arou the country. and more doctors and nurses e arrive with everjet that lands inanta domingo, the dominican capital. >>ehrer: a few minutes ago, margar warner talked to ray out the situation now on the haitian border. >> hellor, r, that was a fabulo peace from the spitals. where are you w? >> suarez: i'mn the that

crosses thborder into hait this is the last bit of e dominican republic before veryvery busy boarder crossing that es two giant cooys every day heading from the dominican capit of santo domin into po-au-prince which is the epicentrof the earthquake. all dung the day you can wah heavily leyden semis come by here, heading r the itian border, and then trucks hding back in from haiti justmpty flatbeds with tarps strapd to the top ready tooad up again at theearest port and come back inthaiti. there's also humanraffic all day. peop streaming back and forth fromid organizations, doctors, international voluntee, dominicans who have beedispatched by eir own government to help just over the bord in their next door neigor. >> warner: n i had read thathat road from the airport in the dinican reblic to port-au-prince was ry congested, could take2 or 18 hours but the flow looks pretty good behind you right now

what was it like frothe airport to at least asar you got? >>. >> suarez: well, it s pretty busy. there re a lot of people coming in from various plac in the world that converged on miamio take that last leg to santo domingo. and there was a lot of medicaequipment, a lot of medicine being uoaded off the plane that we ok in from miami, along with a large team of volunteers fromorean university medical centre in oul. >> warner: now some of the people iyour taped piece in the hospital we haitia who clearly had gotten across the rder and into the dominican rublic am but how frey is the dominican government reall allowing haitianin to their country? >> suarez: well, there's been tense relationshi between the twcountries periodical in the past. and the borders very heavily troled. t in this case, there is beefed up prence along the border to intercepsick peop coming over, not to

apprend them or send them back inthaiti. t now to get them to the hoitals that are nearest the border with haiti, triage them,tabilize them, and then send th in many cases further into the minican republic where theyan get better equipment and spialists. one of the doctors wking at the hospital explained to me that ey are at a bit of a lots there becau some of the injuri are so severe, ushes, cranial injuries, dominal injuries that they haveeither the equipment nor the spialists to really treat those ces there. so they stabilize them a best they can, a get them on se kind of transport to the capitol to larger hospits. >> warner: now what abt the town of jimani, i imagine its not used to absorbing th much activity. >>uarez: no, it's usually a slpier town. but after all, like at thisa orllo or laro, it is a border crossing thats used to bit of international busine, used to people changing money, sellinand buying goods, mping off of

one bus and on to other at the border. so it seems to be ndling it pretty well. it h become sort of an internationaaid town with e markings on various vans and suvs from a who's who of internatnal organization. icef, save the children, care andany, many others, including aid organizaons thatre less known to americs that come froma, latin america and the middle east. >> wner: now tomorrow you are heing into haiti. what are you particularl going toe focusing on in the next week. >> suarez: during thnext week of reportinging we're going to be taking a close look at a couple of area you knowhaitians have been pilingn to buses in po-au-prince and heading into the interior. heading further into t countryside, seeking relief from the conditions in the capitol. but the haitian countride is not in any particar condion to accept hundreds of thousands of refuge. so we'll be taking a look at that. we'll be taking a look at the role othe u.s.

miliry and the haitian governments it tries to renstitution-- reconstitute itlf and get back into business. and we'll be pfiling one haitian sinessman who understands that witho workthere's no money. without money, there's no commerce. d he's trying to ju-start the factories of haiti again. warner: well, ray, good lucknd we'll be watching with interest and i'm sure on the brocast and on-line. >> suarez: thanks lot, margaret. >> bro: the disaster in haiti has brought an outpourg of charit the "conicle of philanthropy" reports more than $350 mlion donated so far, and there ll be more tonight with awo-hour international telethon, featuring a long list lebrities and musical performances. it's being carried by s and all of theajor commercial telesion networks. now, the other ns of the day. here's hari sreenivasain our newsroom. >> sreenivan: vice president e biden has arrived in baghda hoping to ease a disputthat threatens plans for march elections in iraq. itenters on blacklisting more than 500andidates for suected links to saddam hussein's regime. sui muslims were dominant

der saddam, and they s the purge is too broad. biden fl in this evening for a two-day visit. buan iraqi spokesman warned obody can interfere in iraqi affairs, biden oothers." britain today raisedts terror threat level from "subantial" tosevere". that'she second highest level on the british scale the country's home sectary provided no tails on what prompted the chang instead, he said an tack is "highly likely", but tre's no indication that one is imminent. airports across dia went on high alert today oword militants linked to al qda might hijack pnes. there were more armeguards outside aiorts, and passengers had to go through extra serity screenings once inside. in addition, extra s marshals were placed onlanes. thhome ministry said the focus waon air india and indian airlineslights. >> we suspect that therean ben attempt to target one

of our airlines, eecially ose that fly abroad of india. and we have alerted our encies to be careful on an-hijacking measures. >> sreenivasan: india has be largely free of terror attac since litants rampaged through mumbai for three days noveer of 2008. 166 pele were killed. a kansas court hrd opening statements today in the muer of an abortionrovider in chita. scott roeder h confessed to kiing doctor george tiller at a church last may. he is charged with premedited first-gree murder. but thdefense argues it was voluntary malaughter to save the unborn tiller specialized in perforng lateerm abortions. hiclinic closed after his death. thousands rallied washington in the annual "march forife". it was the 37th anniveary of the supreme courdecision of roe v. wade that legaled aborti. the anti-abortion crowd ralld at the white hse, and then moved on tthe supreme court. a handl of abortion rights supporte were also present.

downpours sed today as the latest pacific storm med out of southern california. the risk for mudslides and flooding remained, especiall for residents inhe foothills of thean gabriel mountains. a state emergency was clared in five counties afte nearly ten incheof rain this week. still,ocal officials said many evacuation orders in los anges county will soon be fted. those are me of the day's main stories. i'll be ck at the end of the program with a preview of at you'll find toght on the newshour's web sit but for now, bacto jim. >> lehrer: and sll to come on the newsur: shlds and brooks; d who's in charge of the internet? that follows a rdown of a remarkab few days in politics. judy woodrf has the story. cheers and applause >> woodruf president obama ended onof the toughest weeks he's had in office at a to ll meeting in elyria, ohio. it came three days after esday's stinging loss of a maachusetts senate seat, an outcome that derailed demoatic

hopes of a quick, final vo on alth care. mr. obama acknledged today it was like hittinga little bit of a buzz sa" but he insisted he won't give on health care. >> i didn'take up this issue to boost my poll numbers you knowhe way to boost your poll numbers inot do anything. that's how you do it-- you don offend anybo. i'd ve real high poll numbers. all of washington wod be saying, "what a genius ( laughter and i am not going twalk away just because its hard. we're going to keep on wking to get this done with demoats, i hope witrepublicans-anyone who is wilng to step up. >> woodruff: the president ao brought a new populist edge himessage on jobs and the econy in a state where unemployment is ne 11%. >> so long as i ha the privilege of serving ayour president, i will nostop fighting for you. i will take my lumps, t i won't stop fhting to bring

back jobs here. ( applause i won't stop fightg for an economy ere hard work is rewarded. i wot stop fighting to make sure there's accountability our financial system. >>oodruff: that focus on the financial syem was on display thursday, when the predent announced new proposals curb the size of the biggesbanks and limit their riskaking. >> we've ce through a terrible crisis. the american people ha paid a very high price. we simply cannot rurn to business as ual. >> woodruff: t president and his top aides de they are simplyesponding to election results. this wasreasury secretary tim geithner on the "newshou last night. >>hat's not what's behind this. i've rd that, i've heard that. but the president askeus to work on th going back several weeks. we've provided the recommendations him two weeks ago. >> woodruff: still, therwas further evidence today of w qukly the political landscape

in washington has shifte this time, it involved gwing opposition to confirming ben bernanke to chr the federal reserve board for a seconderm. his cuent term expires at the end of this month. two senate democrats-- rus feingold of wisconsin and barbarboxer of california-- announced theyl oppose bernanke. theyriticized the fed's handling of the financial bailouts. that left the white house issue a statement,aying the presidt still has "a great deal of confidce" in bernanke, anbelieves he'll be confirmed. but wall street so off again today,mid the uncertainty both abouternanke and the president's tougtalk on banks. the dojones industrial average fe nearly 217 points to close below 10,173, the lowest sce la november. the naaq index was down 60 to

finish a2,205. woodruff: and for more abou the bernanke story andow it nnects to the economic and political fallout from this week, we're joined by david wessel, economics itor r "the wall street journal." david, good to s you again, let's start with thearket drop. do you hava sense, an derstanding of how much of th is due to the kemp that bernan might not be reconfirm ed? or how much is d to the present's bank proposal? >>ell, you know, it's very hard to figure out wt the maet does and why it does it. but i do think thathere is realization in the marts that the aitude in washington has turne distinctly popult. and that's to the goodor banks and businesses. so it's nd of a double-whammy. first the president cos and takes a shot at the banks and their stocks fall. and then todayhe markets reize that they thought bernanke might he a hard time getting thrgh but he would get through. anthat suddenly seemed in doubt. so i think they are reflecting the sale

uneasiness that po massachusetts th legiative climate is to the ing to be very friend to big business and wall street. >> woodruff: are they eing a coradictions on the one hand the presidents talking moreopulist, on the other hand he isacking ben bernan? >> that's a good poi. t i don't think that that has sunkn yet. i think that populm is clear in theay the members of congress arbeing-- are acti. and that's putting presse on the preside. and the markets like everybody else reali that the president is goi to have to kind of sht in his positions a little if he i going to survive and be successf presidentment and they are afraid its going be a shift away from probusiness,ro wall street kind of policy. >> woodruf well, how much trouble do you think beanke is in? >> that's a great question judy. you know, 24ours ago i would have told you that h would be bloied and get throh. but todawas a day marked byxtraordinary uncertain and people giving odds 550 that hwould get through or not. at t "the wall street urnal" we did a tally, we

found the 25 senators e declared for him, 16 against. but of course that leas 59 whhaven't said anything. my guess is that thearket reaction will sh congress towardgiving him the votes they need d confirming him before january 3t. buthis has been such an extraordinary week that e trusts o's own judgement less and less. >> woodruff: a one of those interesting developments wasesterday, e senate majority leader harry id was saying he didn'tnow whether he would pport bernke. and guess today put out a statement saying yes, that he would. t he would be watching him. >> right, exactly. so i tnk that was one of the things tt shook people up if t senate majority leader won't back the president's nominee r the federal reserv a man who is is iting a toug re-election ght in a state that has been devastatedy the housing bust, wi that me that you want have the 60 votes youeed to get him thugh. there was a lot of pssure harry reid from the white house and at the end of e day toy he put out a atement but he made clear that his support was notas he put it, unconditional.

that he s still holding mr. rnanke responsiblfor not onlyransparency and accountability of the fed but for the well-beingf the people of his ste. >> woodruf you know a lot about ben bernanke, you followed him, you have written a ok about him. hodo you explain this uneasiness or him, and really much of it l of a sudden. how muchf it is due to the results tuesday in massachusetts? >> i think that benn bernanke has become lightning rod for the public anger that wall street got iled out and main street didn't. he was le tim quitener the easury secretary, one of the people at the scene. and in my view he dia lot that sieve is aed us from secondreat depression. t right now people are seng 10% unemployment and big profs on wall street and they're angry abouthat, and is a very convenient target. and the fed haoften been a target for peopls anger about money and uff like that. anso people are remembering the bailt and

are gry about that. and they a not convinced that as mr. bernanke has said it could have been worse had he not donwhat heid. >> woodruff: nowhe opposition from democrats, david,s based-- is it for different reass from the opposition from reblicans, right? >> wl, i think it's basically motivated by similar public presse. that people arangry about the bailout. and angry about the onomy. they mayiffer in their-- the tone, the democrats think hehould do more thelp housing and maybe do different things on nsumer regulation. the republicans say he was-- he's not doing enoug toeign in the banks and he has created a situation whe may be seating up the seats of theext crisis but all sides are holding him responsible bothor his role at the fein the days leading up to the crisis a the years ading up to the crisis and bause they're not hay with the fact that the bailout is so unpopula with the constitnts. senator boxer, senat reid,

senator fineold all who have--eingold all who have come outoday are all facinge-election so they are perceptive to the public mood. woodruff: what would happen if he were were were not reconfirmed? >> if the senateoes nothing f ey don't have a te, mr. bernanke can stay on the federal resve board. we expt that he would give up the job of chairman and give tt up to the vice chairman donald cohen and poli probably wouldn't change. but would be quite unneing to the markets. of course if the sene rejected him, refused to vote himhen i human he would leave the post even though ctay as a governor and the prident would have to find sobody else. >> woodruff:ell, are there other names of potential successors floating around? >> the white house tel us thathey are not into potheticals. that they are stilcounting on him getting throu. but wenow that a few nths ago when they were trying to decide wheth to repoint mr. bernanke to a second four-year term ther were namesloating around, janet yell, a former clinton adviso a former fed governor nowhe esident of the san francisco pdederal reserve

bank, roger fergon, the head of tia-creff who ed to bat the fed. and larry summers,he presidens economic advisor wod i'm sure love to have the joif the president need somebody and thought that larry summers couldet through the senate. >> woodruff: so vid, is this tru up in the air? >> i do thinit's up in the ai i think the od still favor that mr. bernanke ge through. but the more uncertainty about that tonight than there wa4 hours ago. d that's kind of unsettling. >> woodruff: dav wessel, "the wall street journ," thanks. >> you a welcome. >> lehrer: and to the analis of shields and brooks-- syndicated columni mark shields an"new york times" coluist david brooks. >> lehrer: david, w much of this unttling is the relt of scott brown of massachusetts. >> i think lot. i meanhere's been as david said lot of disquietbout the bailouts and things li that. but think private leigh most members thoug that bernanke iao. that he got us that you a recession. frankly he did a l of things, tranerring money to wl street that the senate kw they this to do but they wted somebody to ame.

but now they are running scared. was up on capitol hill this week d the atmosphere is unbievable. there's real panic. there's anxiety. it sort of every man for himself. every sing ep-- single rson thinks coy lose my job,very single person. >> lehrer: republican, democrats. >> maybe less republican they are me in the-- de. but that is creati a psychologicadynamic which has turned aot of people into ron paul, which is sort of what th s a lot of serious people suddenly thinif i bash the fed, i can go home and say oh, i told those wall stre types. i think it is inedibly irrespsible but if you go up tre, and sense the psychological dynamic it could spinn many different ections. >> lrer: do you see the sameonnections, mark? >> i do, jim, i thinthere has been a lge number of democrats have bn urging the white house to tk this tact, toecome more populist t diance themselves it from what they seas the excesses of wa street.

noting its uopularity. and that the widely held perception in the cotry among voters thathe governme's policies, that david mentioned, which we namely tarand the stimulus and the trillion dollars t housing, the bailo, all helped major interes, particularly wl street but didn't help em. and i think that massacsetts results, i too was up ocapitol hill. and-- l. >> lehrer:ou found the same thingwith the anxiety leve david said s so true. now every man for hielf. ordinarilye were operating as a caucuan you have got a tough race and davidnd i have whawe think are safer races. we'll targ some of our resourcesing some of our money, somof our help to yo now i think 's going to be awfulltough to do that. cause on the democratic side t is, it's every rson for himself, herself. the repuicans are emboldened. they are-- they are not a

gloat fr zone. they areloingt. eric cantor e republican leader told me yesterday that h assumed the they would assume the majory in november. now that's a l of seats to pickp. >> lehrer: what about health-carreform. where does it fit in if all now. >> somebody askeme the day after, on wednesday, do you thk it will-- health-care refo will pass. then i sd 55-45 that it esn't. now having seen and heard what have heard in the last few days, i wou say 800 that it does not. >> lehrer: 80-20 >> you look at allhe different avues in which it could as pathe pass passion the nate bill, breaking it out, reconciation, all have severe barrierand the general sense of anxty. the was a big meeting of house democrats and it was described to me, gene taylor of mississippsaid after katrina had to tell the people in myistrict, i we to the beach and had to tell them. i'm sorry ur house is gone then he saidefore everody, all the democrats, madame speakerlet me tell

u, your house is gone, refeing to the 45e9 care bill. and that is the sentiment at one heres. now i woul't say for sure but if you talk about e consensus ong the experts and people flow this, a lot of peoplthink it's gone. >> lehr: you think it's gone? i think pick your bad cliche, life-suprt, intensive ca. i think its in serious-- but the democrs have a reality ty have to confro. and that is if it doeso down, if theres no -- nothing they c pass, that can pass theest of being mprehensive health-care reform, then ty have failed on e president's domestic initiative. the prinpal, the signature issue, the iue on which e president has told members privately i would stake my presidey on this, annot even have a second term. >> lrer: it was that important to him. >> that important toim. w that's a failure. so theyou've got the democrats t only charged with being too chumy with wa street, but in charge of the house, the sete and the white hoe and being incoetent. and not being able to

deliver on anything. >> lrer: now fit president obama into this w in terms of theacklash, the polism and health-care reform and can he do anything about any of this ors he another victim. >> this is the question. the president the fit time, i think, democrats acknledge both the administration and citol hillnd off acknowledge that day was a mistake. this thing which streted out over such an extended period of time. as one of them saito me, ott brown never would have happened if we had done th in october. th you know, passed it. buthat, the white house let a thound flowers bloom legislatively d let congre work its will. so the predent in the last week insertehimself big time last we, meetings at the white house betweethe leadership to resolvthese difference he wanted some of th special deals from t senate knocked out, made hard decisions. but you know, the questi is can he sustain at? ll he sustain it?

anis the game worth the candle. i mean can do . >> i don't think it was th delay. if you looat when the independentseft the ministration t was between april and june, the nuer of disdishisupport among independents dropped 15 points. the number of people w said he was toliberal leapt by 18 points. i thinthat is when people began to fla off. i thk the problem was obama misread e country. hehought the country was in the mood for a if you deal style, big transformation butn fact the couny is extremely hoile and suspicious and diststful ofashington. and ceralizing power in washington was a mistake being hyperactivwas a mistake. i think now he's makg too additional mistakes. one, he hasn't shown a humility. the couny is saying listen tos, he hasn't said okay, i made a mista as bill clinton di as arnold hwarzenegger did. hasn't done en. second i d't think the populism tnk happens for hi >> lehrer: w not. >> he went to haard law school, combia university,

he appointed tim qui ner, larry-- quitenerlarry summers, he is a member of the establishment. healks like it, thinks like t iappen to have spect for his analytical able its, don't fake t be who you ar it just t going to work to fa it. >> first of all, a great revolutions are leady arris to crats. that is e reality of histy. the idea that he went to haard law school does not in any way preclude hits leading a populist revoluon. populist has ten on a word among several ofy colleaguesn the press, at least one of whom is here-- . >> lehre you're talking about-- what is his name over here. >> it is disrespectf, it's dumb it is not educated t unsophisticated. i mean there are rights d there are wrongs. and i think what the president has laed, quite honestly, has been an emional response that peoplen the cotry feel.

>> lehre whether it populism or anything els >> and they understand the pain. i mean witbill clinton uld do. i mean the people of this country are going thugh a timef terrible, terrible pain, uncertaiy, anxiety. and i think e president has to ideify with that. i agree on his appointment certainly n't suggest that this is an andw jackson of the 21st century. >> let mdefend myself from the maria toinette charge. listen, populi and elitism are the same thing. they are css prejudices. crude class prejudices tha so-and-so because they are uneducated is less worthy or so-and-so because theyre rier or more educated is unworthy. th are both crude, crass class prudices which pele can play into or not play io. restributing money down is not necessarily populist but sayi all bankers are evil is populist. and so it's the crude clas prejudice that i thi that ople are n beginning to pl into. and the only people, by e way, who play to it are phonei.

peop who are genuinely ming from the working class or reprenting or feeling theibone, working class vaes generally don't play tho games. their titudes are much more comicated and much more real than the fak oh, all thoswall street types. that is st too generalized. >> i disagree th david's unterfeit distinctions here. remember that th establishment-- establishmen arian, ts president, harvd law school, what did he do? he became a communy organizer. i means th's what he did. he turned down sreme court clerksps. i meane really did go back and try d make a differen. mean so there is-- there is that in him. would just like to say, rort frost once said to jack kennedy, be more bost and less harvard. and barack obama iequally as complex and complated as anybody else. and i would like to see hi be more chico and less establishment ian. >> lehrer: mnwhile, also

this week, unid states supreme cot handed down this decion on campaign nance. some people sait's a huge catarophe. some peoplsay it's a blsing. freedom of speech issue, first amenent issue, a tragedy, a vtory? w do you see? >>t is the single biggest decion that the supreme court polically in my lifetime, everybody i talk toho is involved in campais, who has raised money potically said is terrified by it. >> lehrer: terrified. >>t's implication. erican corporations by irs's judgent in 2005 are worth $23 trilli dollars. barack obama raised $800 million. now if we are-- sai'm goldmasachs. and david is snsoring reg islation to t back my boses. and david's got a safe district i don't have to go after david. all i have to do igo after someone who is sponsing davis legislation. supporting david's

legislion and i go in and spent $3 milon and beat him. i hangedhat person. my lobbyist ys we're going to stop this one way othe other. we'll spend whatev we have. i n't want to hurt you, david, but i'm sorry, shields just had to sacrifice his seat that is the implications of this are absolutely fathomable and theyre terrifying. >> i thinkt is a bad decisi. i think it will have a poisonous affect on litical atmosphere. but for different reason than most pele that i have read and hrd from. first i'm not convinceit will tally change landscape because i'm no coinced a lot of corporations are withingo wanto have a political profile. >> lehrer: why not. >> because you are a corporation, y want-- everybody so why sti your neck out. but i do thi it will have th affect. at do corporation when they go to washingn what do they nt. one, they wa subsidies fromashington. two, they want to crush small businesses whore hoping to compete with them by ereing regulatory hules. i think they will use that money to y to essentially hurt small

business. we don't w don't have lobbiesists, don't have money to spend and ihink both of the are negative fects on the country. i don't necessarily thk it is great for the repubcan partor terrible for the democratic party because when you look at w is willing to subsidi corporations and recht barriers both parties do that. i think will have bad affects but not necessaril partisan affects. >> lehr: when president obama said yesterd i will talk to congress and we' have forceful response, at can he do? at can anybody do about this? whether they likit or not? >>ell, i mean the way that e opinion, the decision was wrten, it's going to be awfly tough. >> lehrer: it a prepe court ofhe united states de a decision. do you agree with that, there not too many optns. >> people are workinon it but from what i haveead ani don't understand it coletely, they are nibbling othe edges rather than the core. >> it is, m serious this is big te. iteally is. and justhe presence of th kind of money. why uld anybody volunteer in a campaign. >> lehrer: w do you assume,

this is-- david is gng to ask you this question t i'm going to ask it befo he does. why do you assume that ople will use it in evil ways >> don't find corporations historically in thisountry to have been altruistic agents. >> lehrer: david in. >> i think they are altruistic when th make greaproducts. i happen to like my ipod and all that stu. >> i am talkg about public pocy. >> no,hey true try to cycle competition th is what businsman do. >> they don't take a we perspective. i didn't see them, d you see the corporationseally puing for the civil rights acts? did you see them pusng for americanwith disakts act? i missed that, i guess. >> lehrer: mark, david tas real been nice chatting th you. >> brownand finally tonight, the growing u.s.hina dispute overree access to the internet. >> brown: in 2006, t world's most popul search engine,

google, reached a coromise with the wld's most populous untry, china. the company agreed tallow fiering of taboo topics, includg tibet and the tianmen square massacre, on searches done inde china. but last wee google declared it would stop filtering sults, and it thrtened to pull out of china. that followed a codinated attack on googlemail accounts ofhinese human rights activists. e issue has now touched off diplomatic tsions. yesterday, sectary of state hilly clinton called for china to conduct full investigation of themail hacking. in aroader speech on internet freedom and foreign policyshe sharply criticizedountries that enge in censorship of the web. >> countries that restct free access to informatn or violate the basic righ of internet users riskalling themselves off from the progress of t next century those who disrupthe free flow of informati in our society or

any other pose threat to our economy, our govnment and our civil soety. countries orndividuals that engage in cybeattacks should face conseences and internationacondemnation. >> brown: in aition to china, secretary clintonamed tunisia, uzbekistan, egypt,ran, saudi arabia, and etnam. today, china's official medi fired back. one state-n newspaper charged clinton was enging in "information impialism." and the foreign mistry issued a response on its wesite, saying: "we urge the u.sside to respect facts and op using the so-cled 'freedom of the internet' to make unjustied accusations against cha." chinese reporting of clint's criticism was sparsebut the u.s. state departmt took its case dectly to chinese blogrs. the american embassy in being and consulat in other cities hosted webased discussions about the speech.

for its part, ogle issued a statement aising clinton's speechand c.e.o. eric schmidt said the company stillopes to find a w to remain active in chin for more on all this we turn to michael posner, assista secrary of state for democracy, human rigs and labor; and david lampton, directoof the china studs program at johns hopkins university. welcome to both of you. >> thank you. >> mr. posnewhat exactly was seetary of state clintoaccusing china of when it comes to iernet frh dom? what do yosee? >> well, i seehis broader than china it's saying th a number of countries inhe world are basically restrictinthe right of people to spe freehly through e internet, through their cell phones. and preventing them om reallyngaging within their own soeties and the dialogue about issuethat are important to them. this is rely human rights and democracy issue. and this is one component it. >> reporr: specifically in the case of googleand in these attacks on gooe,

e-mail accounts, she asked china to iestigate what haened. now most experts pointed directly at the chinese government or chinese-supported entities. is tt the way the u.s. sees it in. >> well, i think what we see is that there is a broad pattern of restriction of information ina. ceainly the government is volved in that. 're also concerned about persal privacy and protectionf privacy. and so there are two issues here. one ask making sure at the internet is free and open, across borde so the people can participate in the glob discussion of ideas. but the other is the pple who engage in ternet discuson have their personal privacy procted. >> are we in essence aing themo investigate themselves ithe case like th? >> well, i thi we've alwa said that there are consaints ina and other place its onhese freedoms. and we a-- this is merely the latesthapter in a longer discussion about how we encrage the development of real democracy d free

society d empowering the media to have these ises discussed open withina, by chine people. is is to the about us. it'sbout the desire of peoplen china to speak freely. >> reporter:avid lampton, the response, informion imperialism,njustified cusations, something akin to mind your o business, in a w. mean did that surprise you? >> no. because information ntrol is at thheart of the chinese sttegy to maintain social stabity. the inrnet provides a vehicle, a phway for dispersed organizatis across t territory as big as the united states t accord fate acvity. and a nuer of years ago you may remember the fal gong organized itself electrically to surround the leadership headquarts unbeknownsto the chinese leadship until it ocrred. they are dedicated to maki sure that esn't happen again. as as it gets to middl class growing very rapidly theyave rising

expections. people want more control over their desny and the internet is a vecle by which ey can do that. so i think i what say some sense if yolook at wh the foreign ministry said, they did say everything you said. th went on to say they want to continue to have good relations with the uned states. >> reporter: but do theyee this as meddling in chese affairs as anoth example of t u.s. not understandinga, or reecting china for that matter? >> right, ll court is a chinese narrative of chine history, of foreigners interfering in their internal affairs so, thi fits in. i think what is interesting on the one hand, chine people are versensitive, not just the govnment but the people to whathat is perceived to be terference but on the other hd, in the case of google theare showg people to show publicly support for their continued access to relatively unfettered formation. ey have been in effect, having people in front o the google company saying

love google. e implication being they want--o i think they are ambivalent in this particular cas >> reporter: whaleverage does the u.s. have and wha levege is the u.s. willing to use? it interesting. this is en a week in which chinese ficials said something aboucurrency. itffects our stock market in so many differentays we are intertwined. and they he a kind of-- a clearer nse of power. and real power than ever beforeso what leverage do we he in. >> carly the united states and china are two majo powers in the world. we have a range of interests mual interests in economy and security, a range of things. we talk about the things. thisnother part of the relationship. and there isn't one quk swer to that. but we are going to contue to engage with them on issu that are important to us, issues where we have differences. anthis is for us part of what mean-- it means to be a stle society in the longerm. soal stability means also

ability of people toperate commercially to have acces to information. it also means in se cases that people dissent fr government policies d they makehose views known. >> reporter: is it possible to linan issue like this other issues, for example, make it a rt of a trade issue, technology limit its on technologtransfers, how do you think about, agai this goes to the lerage question, how do y think out what we have to link to get their atttion on someing like this? >> well, carly we have gottenheir attention. but i think there are a range of ws to look at this one is thaamerican compies and other companiewant to operate in a place where inrmation ows freely. we have to keep making tha point and american companies i think have the responsibili to make that pot. we can use our dipmacy to help push that discuion. we ask also help people ina who e trying to make their voices heard ge them some capacity and give them some support ashey do this. so the mtiple strategies here, not one is going t

solve this but i think wre on the rht track. d i think a lot of chinese people wt us to succeed. >> reporr: and what do you sefrom the chinese side, does presse work? >> i found mrs. clinton's speech wasxcellent and i think one reas was she called attention to what i ink the chinese know themselves. and that is they'rinvolved in markets all ovethe world. they need timelynformation to promo their own economic groh. and i think thbig leverage we have is it sn't just google that was attackeds i derstand it. it was others that haven been qui as forthcoming about their concer. and i think the chinese busiss community and aders, they're involved in huge equities and debt, debt instruments and so on. theyeed up to the second information. and accura information, so i think theye got an internal constituency for this. also, all the young people are,his is a wired generation. >>ooney: . >> reporter: but do they have real power to speako

the government >> the criteri of success at the localeader is avoidingncidence where they wouldall mass incidences and destabilization. so the dree to which people get concern, both thin the party from maybe theieconomic reasons and th the capacity for young people to up set, i think is something they would prefer not to se >> repter: let me ask you in our lt minute, you started by talki about this is broader than china. and the secretary talk abt many other countries. to wt extent is this now internet freom a component of human rights and thereforu.s. foreign poli. how big a deal is itnd how much will we bhearing about it and how much action will there be on it. >> it's critally important. th is the way the world is now communicating. th is the way people are discsing ideas. both within countries an ross borders. in the '70s, the late '7 and early 0s when i started doing this wor we talked aut the-- we talked abt the russian disi dense that us ed homemade printi

presses tohrow out inrmation this so much more poer withful than tha because the things could be controlled in theay that the internet and cell phones can't be. this is the way th the governmentare going to be essentially he accountable. and it is going to be an open debate acro borders about issues thareally matter to people. >> reporter: micha posner d david lampton, thank you both very much. >> good to be withou. >> lehrer: aga, the major delopments of the day: the exod from haiti's shattered capital ke building, and the vernment talked of setting up tent cities for me than 400,000eople. vice president biden arred in baghdad. he's hoping toase a political spute that threatens plans f march elections in ira and britain raisedts terror threat level one not to "severe". the gornment would not say what prompted e change. the newshour is alys online. hari sreenivasan, inur newsroom, prevws what's there. hari. >> sreenivasan: look at a new study showing children age eit to 18 are spending more than seven hours a dayn front of all sorts of screen be they

tvs, computers or ce phones. we'll ta to the lead researcher. on health careanalysts weigh in on the prospectf a scaled- back healthcare billfter the repuican victory in massachusetts th week. finally, be sure tjoin us for informal conversation with shields and ooks after the program. all that and more isn our web te, newshour.pbs.org. jeff. >> brownand that's the newshour f tonight. i'm jeffrey brown. >> lehrer: a i'm jim lehrer. "washington week" can beeen later this ening on most pbs stations. we'll see you line, and again here monday evening. have a nice weekend. thank you and goodight. major funding for thpbs newshour is ovided by: >> what the world needs now energy. the engy to get the economy humming again. the energy to tackle cllenges ke climate change. what if that energy camerom an energy comny? every y, chevron invests $62

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